Don Grover, CEO of Dymocks, on ‘D Publishing’ – Interview

“We’re not just about vanity publishing. We’re about Australians with
stories to tell.”

I first saw the article about Dymocks’ new self-publishing arm (‘D Publishing’) a
few days ago. I linked to it on Facebook, and a friend asked me my thoughts.

I said I was surprised.

Which I am, hugely.

Yesterday at Melbourne Writers Festival, I heard the CEO of Dymocks, Don Grover, talk about the future of bookshops.

I remembered about half way through the session about the new publishing venture, and suddenly got all excited.

‘I could ask him!’ I thought. I quickly Googled the article and re-read it, and started to think of a few questions I could ask.

As the speakers had a lot to say, they only got through three or so quick questions. I also realised that my questions really weren’t that relevant so the talk, so I stayed quiet.

Then, I realised I could go up to him after the session!

I was hoping for a quick one-minute comment and what I got was much more.

I went up to Grover after the session, introduced myself as a MWF UNblogger and asked if he had a second to answer a few quick questions about D Publishing.

He asked me to wait for a minute while he talked to another member of the audience, and then ushered me up the stairs and to the chairs and tables at the top of BMW Edge.

Suddenly, this got serious.

What had I gotten myself into?! I certainly didn’t expect it to be so formal so quickly! I hadn’t prepared! I certainly don’t know enough about it to ask informative, interesting questions.

So, instead, I did what I usually do: freaked out internally and talked way too fast externally.

And asked the first questions that came to my head.

So just how is D Publishing going to differ itself from other self-publishing companies?

In the article, it said, ‘Dymocks did not see itself as building an operation to compete with standard publishers, and he [Grover] said the systems and service it offered would separate it from other self-publishing companies.’

“We are taking a very professional approach to this. We want to be able to help people create the book – so that’s the technology side.

“We then engage with a lot of freelance editors and freelancer designers. On the way through the process you can then improve your book.”

We both agree that sounds like a ‘traditional’ publisher.

So how come they didn’t go down that route?

“We wanted an author paid rather than the publisher pull,” Grover says.

Yet the writers will be paying for their service, as it the way with self-publishing.

“That’s why so few authors get published. The publishers make commercial decisions about everybody’s product. We don’t,” Grover explained.

I ask if the prices are going to be comparable to other self-publishing companies, and Grover replies, “They might be. We’ll know in the middle of October.” 

Grover says that, “We’re [Dymocks] the largest bookseller in the country; we can channel that market.”

Which then nicely leads into my main question that I wanted to ask: isn’t that just capitalizing on writers wanting to secure that position in their stores?

After spending five years working in a bookstore, I’ve lost count on how many self-published authors came in, wanting us to stock their books.

We said no.

I know it’s a valued commodity for self-published authors.

Grover replies that, “Absolutely” they’re capitalizing on it.

“Under a normal publishing arrangement they wouldn’t be getting published at all,” Grover said. “If they want to get their works published, a lot of them are self-published. There are over 3000 self-publishing organisations in Australia who produce less than five books a year.

“If you can imagine all of those authors producing their books through a small self-published company, that have no marketing capabilities, no existing customer base – we provide all of that. If you’re a literary author who’s currently with a small self-publisher, you can re-consider that position and come to D Publishing. Have your book produced through our services and then it’ll be online – [you’ve got a] much better chance of being found on the internet [with D Publishing].

“We add so much more to the normal self-publishing model, particularly the  online only self-publishing model. I think it’s going to be really compelling proposition for anyone who has a story to tell.”

I have to ask about quality control.

Grover says that Dymocks, “Buy[s] today from 900 publishers. A lot of those small publishers are people who self-publish. We’re a large organization; we can bring economy of scale to this. Over twenty-four million people come into our stores each year.”

“For an author, we’re not promising anything. You can decide your own destiny. You can come into our model, you can decide how much you want to pay for each of the services. We can take you into international markets, produce ISBNs. [We will] do all the things the normal publishers do. Everybody gets a chance to be online, but not everybody gets a chance to be in print.”

Grover then says that they will tap into their ‘Booklovers’ loyalty program. He says that the first chapter of your book will be sent out to fifty ‘Booklovers’ who will ‘mark’ the chapter and, as Grover put it, D Publishing love your book, the customers love your book, then they will want to put it on their shelves.

Grover says he “hates” the words ‘vanity publishing’.

“Don’t you think that describes it?” I ask.

He agrees, and says, “We’re [D Publishing] not just about vanity publishing. We’re about Australians with stories to tell. That’s our thing.”

“If you want your manuscript published, online or physical, then Dymocks, D Publishing, will be the place to do it.

“It’s a logical extension for us as we have so many passionate booklovers. We have the credibility. We’re a large, international booksellers.”

That credibility is exactly what I think my main concern with this venture is: the loss of credibility.

There’s no doubt that there is a stigma with self-publishing and I distinctly remember, when first reading that article about D Publishing, that, in my eyes, Dymocks is almost cheapening their brand.

I ask Grover about this, and honestly tell him my thoughts.

“You’ve got the stigma from what self publishing you’ve seen,” he says to me. “How do you think authors get published?”

I was about to launch into the whole ‘write a stellar book, search for an agent, query publishing houses’ but Grover quickly continues on to say, “Most of them have to self-publish.”

“A lot of people find that because there’s no recognized brands behind self-publishing, they don’t feel comfortable with it. With the research we’ve done, people who’ve written a book want to get published.”

Grover adds, “[A] trusted brand in that process rather than a no-name brand. It’s a big differentiator for us.”

He suggests that, “Publishing is an elitist pursuit” and with the more ‘traditional’ publishing, “Hardly anyone gets published.”

We go back to what seems to be their core vision – Australians writing Australian books.

Grover says that, “63% of the books you read aren’t written by Australians.”

I say that I’m fine with admitting many of my favourite authors are American and English, and that I do read lots of international books. I certainly don’t feel the shame that Grover seems to be implying comes with reading international authors.

He says that, “Those Australian publishers support international authors. They don’t support Australian authors.”

I suggest that Scribe is working hard building an Australian list. I also say that I’ve read plenty by Text lately that are Australian.

And now that I’m at home, writing this, I’m thinking of all the wonderful Australian Young Adult literature that’s being published locally, by publishers such as Pan Macmillan, Penguin, Random House, Allen and Unwin.

Grover says that D Publishing, “Will be the same”.

I suggest that Text pay their authors, and he says that “We’ll [D Publishing will] be paying them too, through revenue.”

He says that authors often do all the work for nothing, that the majority of them don’t get advances, and with no guarantee of success.

I say that no-one who wants to get rich quick writes books! Grover agrees, adding that no-one gets into bookselling either to get rich – I readily agree, my former boss went broke and had to close the bookstore I worked at.

Sadly, at this point someone comes over and Grover has to rush off.

Although I would have wanted to keep talking, I still can’t believe I got this time with him.

So – that’s it.

Even after talking to him , I still feel that D Publishing cheapens the Dymocks brand.

Although I have no doubt that self-published authors will buy the package to their books in the Dymocks stores.

For more information on D Publishing, you can visit D Publishing’s page on Dymocks’ website.

What do you think? Does it cheapen the Dymocks brand? Or do you think it’s a good idea?