Today I just read a post by Chris Flynn, former editor of Torpedo and fiction editor at Australian Book Review.
It was written a few weeks ago but by some grace of Twitter, it was being Tweeted around and I read it.
He compares buying books online/independents/chains, looks at margins and costs, and does some pretty thorough research about savings a regular consumer can make while shopping at all three.
It’s a really compelling article and if you’re at all interested in book buying, I highly recommend it.
I found myself agreeing with almost everything Flynn wrote.
That you’d be stupid to visit Borders over Readings (he used Readings as an example of an independent bookstore) as their prices are much more expensive. (Something I’m sure I’ve ranted about in the past!).
It is way cheaper, most of the time, to buy from The Book Depository.
When I used to work at the bookstore, about 99% of my wage went straight back into it. My boss was laughing; he might as well just paid me in books.
But then I discovered The Book Depository and suddenly I hardly looked back.
On average, I’d wager a bet that The Book Depository is about half price than what you’d find in Australian shops. (Well, for most YA’s anyway, maybe adult books are most expensive. Although I did once get a pictorial Chanel book for a present for $15 – all the Aussie stores were $60+. It felt awesome!).
That being said, as Flynn mentioned, some books aren’t available on there (due to Australian-only editions etc) but most are.
I’d get the books delivered to the bookstore as that’s where I was during business hours, and god knows what my boss thought when those little white packages turned up, day after day, with my shrieking in joy with every new book.
Let’s get something straight: I love independents. Borders has its place, sure, but give me an independent any day. (Or, what I like using Borders for: their range. Given the sheer size of their store they carry a much larger selection. So I usually go in, check it out, write down titles I want and buy them later. Much cheaper (And we’re not even talking about the online savings here; Borders typically mark-up their books 10-20% (As do Angus and Robertson))).
But since I’ve discovered The Book Depository I rarely buy in bookstores anymore.
For me, I’d love to support my local independents. Who wouldn’t? Who doesn’t love browsing shelves, finding that special book, buying it, and carrying it all the way home?
For me, at this point in my life, it’s purely a financial transaction: not wanting to play the poor student card here, but why would I buy X book at my local independent for $19.95 when I can pay $11 on The Book Depository? (True story. All those CHERUB books I recently purchased? Just over $11 each, while RRP in Australia is something around $20).
So while it’s not fun for me to wait while they get shipped, I’d rather wait than part with the extra cash. Especially since any cash I save means I can buy more books!
Recently, I said I was going crazy over the Girlfriend Fiction Series. Which I am.
Admittedly, I did check out The Book Depository but – proving Flynn’s theory – they didn’t have them.
Alas, since I started going crazy it was around Christmas time meaning lots of sales – so, as I mentioned, I haven’t paid full price for one of them.
Just yesterday I got one half price at Big W.
For those titles, I scoured Target, K-Mart, Big W, Angus and Robertson, Dymocks, Collins, Borders – every possible book-buying-store to try and find them.
Obviously, Borders had the widest selection and out of the final five books I’m yet to buy they had most – but at a tidy profit to them at (from memory) about $18 or so each.
I also have two people out looking for them (my grandma and one of my close friends). I’ve given them strict instructions not to pay over $10 (RRP $14.95) and I’m certain I’ll be able to find the remaining five that way.
Again, it’s not about me being a tight-ass (well, okay, a little bit may be) but: 20 books in the series at $14.95 a pop = $299.
Even if I paid the top price I want, $10, for each, that’s $200 – a savings of $99. But as I said, some I paid $1.88 for, yesterday’s one was $7.50, etc.
Saying that, if I’m out, having a good time, if the bookstore has a nice vibe (like The Little Bookroom does for instance) then yeah, sometimes I will pay RRP for a book.
I do like to support the independents.
But mostly, for me, it’s a money thing.
And online simply provides cheaper books.
Your opinion?
This is as dull and tedious as it gets. Price not value eh? Ever heard of a banana republic?
personally, i try and buy things from a combination of Betterworld books – a really fantastic online seller, which is a for-profit charity (so, a business, but one with a strongly philanthropic focus) and my locals. HOWEVER, and this is the key – i can afford to do this. i have a full time job, and a relatively healthy income. i think it's vitally important that those of us who CAN afford to support bookstores we love, do so.
not every can though.
I'm also a large book buyer. Being a school teacher I am always scouring the shelves for different themed books at good prices. I'm forever searching through all book stores, online book suppliers etc. My feeling is that whoever has the book I need at a reasonable prince then they get my sale. I am also a huge fan of the Book Depository. They ship to Australia for free, the books are at least half the price and often they have exactly what I'm looking for without me having to search all over Melbourne for it. It's cheap, easy and convenient.
I've never heard of Betterworld Books but I'll be sure to check it out.
I completely understand that when you're a poor uni student you do what you need to. I've been there and at the time you do what you can.
Hi Anon, sorry that you feel that my post was 'dull and tedious'.
You are certaintly under no obligation to read what I write – but I guess you know that:)
Interesting comment re price not value – a book is a book is a book. It's still a quality product wherever you buy it from.
And no, I hadn't heard of a Banana Republic (apart from the American clothing store) but Wiki tells me this: "Banana republic is a term that refers to a politically unstable country dependent upon limited agriculture (e.g. bananas), and ruled by a small, self-elected, wealthy, and (but not necessarily) corrupt politico-economic clique"
I guess I see what you're saying. And that's something I also didn't touch on in the post – it is hard for bookstores.
But you know what? It's hard for me too!!
And thanks ladies, excellent points:)
Also (good to keep in mind for when you are published) – the less money you pay for a book, the less money goes to the author. I always try to pay full price for Australian authors and buy their books from independent bookstores, but I don't worry so much about overseas bestsellers and have often used Book Depository then.
I don't get the 'Banana Republic' thing either. Though I expect if anon knew what he/she was talking about he/she wouldn't have felt the need to remain anon, hey?
BTW: interesting article in today's Age about big chain retailers complaining about online competition. Worth checking out.
Yes that's a very good point re money in author's pockets, Sally.
I feel so bad because of that too – because I review, I get most of Aussie authors books for free!!
Ohhh, I'll have to track down the article… online… so not paying… hahaha kidding :p
"But, as many consumers have pointed out, items listed for sale on the net – from clothes and electronics, to books and DVDs – are in many instances 40 to 60 per cent cheaper than in Australia, with a 10 per cent GST hardly making an impact on price."
http://www.theage.com.au/business/revealed-retailers-secret-tax-strategy-20110105-19fsp.html
"Melbourne billionaire Solomon Lew, who dominated yesterday's ad with more than half of the brands displayed owned by companies he or his family controls, said there would be bedlam if the policy continued unchanged.
'They just can't allow offshore retailers who don't pay any taxes in Australia, who don't employ anyone in Australia, who don't leave a cent behind in Australia, to just take the money and run,' he told 3AW radio. He said the Tax Office was missing out on revenue that could fund hospitals and welfare.
Talkback callers vehemently opposed the retailers' idea – and 800-plus people posted comments on theage.com.au.
Yesterday, independent senator Nick Xenophon said it was ludicrous for big business to complain of an uneven playing field when it had earlier benefited from the power imbalance.
'It's like watching Goliath pretend he's David,' he said. 'The extraordinary market power of these very businesses has put enormous pressure on the small business sector.' "
(Well said, Nick!)
http://www.theage.com.au/business/retailers-gst-call-backlash-20110104-19f38.html
Oh noes!!!
I'd not be able to survive without the Book Dep.
My collection wouldn't be half of what it is!
I see the theory but…
On Flynn's comments, someone mentioned that perhaps the publishing/retail industry needs to have a look at itself. If the prices weren't so expensive then things would change.
Almost (and in some cases) $35 for a trade?! And some are even starting at $40 plus for hardback, and then months before the paperback, many of which are now RRP $25 or more.
Besides, that Chanel book I mentioned? With the $15 bucks I spent on that, I could also buy heaps of other things.
Whereas if I purchased that locally, it would have been that book and nothing else as the present.
"Retail giants including Myer, David Jones, Borders and Harvey Norman are pressing the government to apply GST to goods bought online."
Again, as someone mentioned on Flynn's comments, adding GST to online purchases won't do much – it'll still be cheaper…
$11 Book Dep book + $1.50 approx GST = $12.50 book. Versus $RRP20, still cheaper.
What you said is bothering me, Sally.
And that domino effect can spill over to artists and basically any small business…
I try and do my bit. I buy from small businesses if I can rather than the giants. There's a fruit shop I love which I try and go to, although if their bananas are over $5/kilo whereas Coles have it for $1.20/kilo, I just can't justify spending more money and getting way less…
And just to mention something the comments on the Age article said, that fruit shop has been forced out of the shopping centre due to very high rent prices. Go figure!
Yeah, it's worth thinking about Megan. I think 'conscious consumerism' is a small but important step towards a sustainable future. Every time I go to buy something I try to ask myself: How much was that twelve-year-old factory worker paid to produce this thing? How much energy was used to import that thing when I could have bought it locally? Which landfill is this useless piece of crap going to end up in? Do I really need that bigger/newer/brighter thing?
Books and food are the two things I rarely try to save my money on. Food because I believe we are what we eat and books because without a thriving Australian publishing industry I am out of a job! Booksellers, independents in particular, are my support network and my livelihood. They are part of the foundation of our writing community. Even though 'Robert' on Chris Flynn's blog may sound cantankerous, he has a point when he says: "The natural corrollary of this obsession is high unemployment … and a diminished cultural community/economy."
Can you imagine a city without bookstores? That would be like walking into a home with no books! I agree Australian books are very expensive compared to buying books overseas, and I don't entirely understand why this is so, but for an author 10 percent of $20, is better than 10 percent of $10, so for local authors I pay the difference without question – and hope that my miniscule contribution to their paltry royalties will just be enough to help them stay afloat. People don't think twice about paying hundreds of dollars on a pair of shoes they may only wear once, and yet baulk at paying $25 for a book which will they can keep for a lifetime.
I completely see your point, but:
Would you rather I buy one book for one author in an indie in Australia, therefore meaning ONE author gets a cut, or TWO books from The Book Dep where two authors get two cuts?!
Yes they're smaller cuts but the cuts are going around a lot more…
I also agree withe food thing, and I'd like to buy 'proper' food and feed myself well, but the junk/crap food is just SO much cheaper!
The other week my sister and I went to the shops. For lunch, I went and got Maccas, mainly cuz I had no cash on me and they're one of the few food shops that do EFTPOS without a minimum. So I got a full meal for $4.95 and my sister got a yogurt and fruit and a juice for over $10. Much healthier yes, but also double the price!
Honestly? – one Australian book from one Australian indie bookstore. Really. But that's just me. It may sound hokey but I'd rather my local bookstore got the money than some UK company. But I'm only standing up for us struggling Aussie writers. Those US & UK bestsellers you can buy anywhere you like as far as I'm concerned.
Oh, don't get me started on food, Megan. I'll be ranting forever. For a start, I would never call Maccas a 'full meal' – sorry! But in this area we might just need to agree to disagree and I'll stop before I annoy you completely.
I think I'll go back to what Veritas was saying – when I'm working full time on a fab salary and have money to burn then I'll do it right and properly and stand up for the struggling Aussie writers too.
Til then, while i'm still a stuggling student AND writer, it's simply not an option.
besides, i try and support them other ways: by advertising them on this blog, going to all the events, telling everyone i know about how awesome so and so is. things I can do to support writers.
believe me Sally: I LOVE AUTHORS!!
oh no, keep going! I agree, Maccas is hardly food but I do really really like how you can use EFTPOS. most food shops in shopping centres dont have that service (which I can see why for, as for a $3 can of coke it's barely worth it) so Maccas it is, as I rarely carry cash on me.
And yes, before you say anything: that wonderful meal I had at your house was my first proper meal in months!!! hahahahaha
Don't worry Megan – I think you do a fabulous job supporting Australian authors. As we will support you when your time comes.
And you are welcome to come over for a home-cooked meal any time. MUCH cheaper than Maccas!
OK – time for me to stop chatting! Got to go put my son to bed now. Incidentally we are reading Mo Willems' FABULOUS Elephant and Piggie series – which I bought from The Book Depository!
Hahaha thanks, I'll take you up on that!! As long as I can exchange it for tech help, of course! :p
And that's hilarious – go the Book Dep!! haha
Loving this comment on The Age website:
"Borders were one of the retailers in this newspaper ad campaign re the gst on online shopping, yet if you have been into one of there stores, they are overpriced on EVERYTHING!!! The dvd section in their stores, you can find 10-15 copies of one film, with a $40 price tag!!! what a joke,that is $400-500+ worth of stock gathering dust on the shelves, the book prices in their shops are laughable also.
Borders are only for people who don't know any better."
I'm a firm supporter of independent booksellers. While you pay "more" (ie. recommended retail price), you know that the author is getting the maximum percentage for their work (and it's not enough of a percentage in the first place) but you are also supporting a small business and its staff – who usually know a lot, and care a lot, about the books they are selling, which in turn hopefully perpetuates the industry!
Me too. I love the indies.
I also agree with you, Kate – as you said indie staff are often more knowledgable and actually care!
And no, authors don't get paid enough!
I take the same road as Sally: full price for Aussie authors, not so fussed about books originally ublished o/s. I also go out of my way to shop at indies, as much for the pleasure of shopping somewhere that's not the bookselling equivalent of a supermarket, in terms of bland display and product (I'm looking at you, Borders, with your 90% paranormal YA selection ) as for supporting small business.
Hahahaha that's so true, Aimee!
I'm so sick of bookstores YA sections being almost all paranormal!
I'm not anonymous because I don't know what I'm talking about – I simply want to be so. If we spend all our time pursuing cheapness (which in books is currently overseas online) then the corrollary is more damaging than the delight that may be experienced in avoiding expensive local bookstores. I run one of these bookstores and am simply sick of people getting their jollies from attacking my livelihood. Quality bookstores may well disappear, and all retailing for that matter. When unemployment is 15% and we buy everything o/s online you may not have a job to fund your shopping habits. Anyway, I'm old fashioned and think that jobs and community matter. The nonsense in all this is that you suggest you love bookshops, but if they close down you will have got what you wanted.
Sorry if I sounded offensive, Anonymous. Guess I was feeling protective of Megan after your first short sharp comment. I empathise and essentially agree with your later comment and hope this has been made clear in my follow-up comments on this blog and on facebook. I do think it is very important to hear from independent booksellers themselves in this debate so it is great that you and Kate have added your comments. It is important that readers are aware of the other side of the story – which I believe Megan is posting a piece on today?
Hmm, fascinating discussion!
I purchase instore and online, and don't mind doing either. To be honest, I rarely compare the cost of books – I look at the price of the book in my hand, and if I can afford it, I'll buy it. If I can't afford it, I make a note of it, and borrow it from the library. If I buy it somewhere else later on, it's because I can afford it now, almost never because I've shopped around and found the best price.
Anonymous, I can understand your point, but I think you're coming across as a little rude when you make it. I used to work in a bookstore (in two, in fact), and in publishing (again, for two different companies) and I understand how difficult it can be competing against companies who are underselling you everytime you turn around. I think we all agree that jobs and community do matter, but some people have other things that matter more.
Megan, I remember being a poor student and not being able to get money out at the ATM because I had less than $20 in my account, and $20 is the minimum. I also went to Macdonalds for meals because you could use EFTPOS. Sure, nutritionally they aren't the best, but I was luckily still living with my Mum and Dad, so I went home to a great meal for tea. Anyway, that's kind of beside the point.
Megan, I understand that at this point in your life, making your money stretch is vital. I sympathise!
Personally, I think that so long as people are buying books, I'm not too concerned with where they are coming from. The only further involvement I want books to have with the GST is when the tax is removed from them. It should never have been applied in the first place.
P.S. Not sure if you know about this site Megan, and other online shoppers, but to find the best prices for books online, try booko.com.au. It will search online bookstores for you, and show you the prices (including postage) for each store. It saves a lot of time! I heard about it in the comments section of another site where this issue is being discussed.
Anon 12:26, I completely agree.
I worked in a bookstore – while a chain we were a franchise so it was all up to my boss – and know your struggles well.
The look on my bosses face as the daily total was well below the out-lays and expenses of the day.
The look on my bosses face as customers came in to return a book they'd purchased ten minutes earlier, only to then go into Kmart and find it for half the price.
It's so hard to compete with the 'big boys', esp for such small businesses.
And yes, I fear what you're saying is true as well if all the bookstores disapear.
Jess, I have that issue at ATMs as well!!! That's why I go to Coles, Target, Kmart etc, where I can get $5 cash out :p
Don't mean to be rude – I am blunt at times though. For the record I manage one of the Readings stores, and I stand by our commitment to range and service, and where we can to offer some competition on price.
Anon 5:11, would you please email me at literary.life at hotmail.com?
I'm doing a five-part series on this topic and would love to interview you as a part of it – get your view across.
Your anonymity is secure – please consider it. More details will be up on the blog tomorrow, but please email me.
PS – not meaning to suck up, but Readings definitely isn't one of those up-marker stores, and you do have a great range:D
What about libraries? I find if there is a series with 20 books or so, libraries more often than not have them on their shelves (well, that is the libraries here in Canada, I would have no idea what its like in Australia) but it's hard to believe how much money people could save if they simply borrowed a book. Other than that I almost always buy online as well, I'm only a high school student so money is definitely an issue, esp. when my parents don't pay for my book buying habit!